Curse

Tearz1993 · Mar 16, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Considering three different options:
1) ESurge
2) Power Block
3) Hex Eater Vortex

Pro's for 1:
AoE damage
Combined with EBurn can generate a decent amount of pressure on monks
Spike damage besides Shatter

Cons for 1:
2 second cast time, or about 1.5 with FC
Doesn't really benefit your team other than the offense is the best defense
Weapon swapping screws this over

Pros for 2:
A good mesmer can shut down key roles on the other team
Can result in team wipes if the mesmer can catch guardian/aegis on prot monk
Can be used offensively as well as defensively

Cons for 2:
A bad mesmer uses this inefficiently
15 energy can be a bit much unless you get something every time
Other elites can be more useful against certain teams

Pros for 3:
Can be used as off-monk hex removal
It's shatter, AR, and remove hex combined
Can be used for spiking or just to generate pressure

Cons for 3:
Conditional
Requires good team synergy with 3 removals in the team
Hard to use to maximum potential

Didn't add Simple Thievery because the same things for Power Block apply for this, and didnt put Langour because it doesn't fit our teams play style.

Thoughts?

dies like fish · Mar 16, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

[skill]Glyph of Energy[/skill][skill]Glyph of Renewal[/skill]

Phe Belladona · Mar 16, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

surge is best, very flexible can spike, nuke archers, give good control over foes energy after pleak, excellent on split and generally worth taking over other options when using a 40/40 set

Shuuda · Mar 16, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I see E-Surge getting a lot of Play recently, might be the most reliable pick right now.

Buns United · Mar 16, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

For what cause are you planning to use it? GvG?

Either way, take the skill the mesmer is the most experienced with. Playerskill > Skillbar still imo. I'd rather have a good player use an on-the-limit bar efficiently, then see a bad player use his 'pro-copied' bar like a complete a$$hat.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Mar 16, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I prefer the mindless play I get from Renewaling Shame and Diversion and training monks with it!

Buns United · Mar 16, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

I prefer the mindless play I get from Renewaling Shame and Diversion and training monks with it!

You're saying 'mindless play' yet you claim that they'll be using it on monks all the time

Please do read:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buns United

like a compelete a$$hat

But yeah overal it'll work, so will esurge, and pblock if they get lucky..

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 16, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

If your mesmer is fantastic I'd say 2), or else 1).

3) if you know it's going to win the match for you.

Tearz1993 · Mar 17, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Thanks guys really grateful for the advice! Probably going to use ESurge for now just because of how useful it is as nearly unconditional pressure on monks. by the way didnt put GoE or GoR because we're running WT ele so don't really need GoE and, well, i don't really like GoR

Scrimbul · Mar 17, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

Thanks guys really grateful for the advice! Probably going to use ESurge for now just because of how useful it is as nearly unconditional pressure on monks. by the way didnt put GoE or GoR because we're running WT ele so don't really need GoE and, well, i don't really like GoR

You obviously haven't GoR'd ward vs. melee, or shame, or diversion. or even shatter enchantment.

GoRing any of those can cause a team to collapse provided it's timed properly and you don't overextend.

And since not all GvG is high end, the fact that you can GoR diversion almost means you can basically power-block heroway/tainted/MM heroes who will happily power through it and shame.

While they are all fairly obvious, GoRing shame is wonderful. Start on count of 2 during a spike, shame a monk twice in a row. If he removes it with veil, it will be applied again. If he tries to power through it with a different spell, you still win. If he waits out the six seconds, you still win. If you get interrupted, you probably still win.

If you are facing a heavy sinsplit or adrenospike team, glyphing ward is almost essential in certain situations, and not a bad idea in general if your opponent has a frontline like it's supposed to.

My team killed a hero n/rt and player monk supported r-spike today with glyph of renewal. Quite an accomplishment considering me and the bsurger spent the majority of the game down because the rangers knew we were going to rip their build to shreds.

GoR just flat makes more flexible bars than e-surge. And if GoR gets nerfed, mesmers will go back to Echo which is basically the same spell on energy and recharge, only slightly less flexible and requires more prediction and thought in bar function.

JR · Mar 17, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrimbul

GoR just flat makes more flexible bars than e-surge. And if GoR gets nerfed, mesmers will go back to Echo which is basically the same spell on energy and recharge, only slightly less flexible and requires more prediction and thought in bar function.

Competitive Mesmer bars have never used Echo, and I don't see why they would.

Shuuda · Mar 17, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42

I'm going to assume from experience, that GoR Shame only works on pretty bad players, but it's fun to watch them keep falling for it.

JR · Mar 17, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

I'm going to assume from experience, that GoR Shame only works on pretty bad players, but it's fun to watch them keep falling for it.

Unless you have Hexbreaker or are pre-veiled you have to rely on the other Monk to remove it before you can do anything. If the other Monk is unable to (saving their own ass) then there is a large window of time within which you are unable to do much. In some circumstances it might be worth swapping down to your shield set and triggering it off.

It's the well timed/lucky shames that hit you in your focus set which really hurt. Combined with the failed cast it's a big chunk of energy you lose.

samcobra · Mar 17, 2008, 03:13 PM // 15:13

A good shame triggering on high set can pretty much decide the outcome of the battle. That being said, [skill]Psychic Instability[/skill] ownzz

Tearz1993 · Mar 18, 2008, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Never said GoR wasn't a perfectly fine skill its just that there are other more useful skills when used by a good mesmer imo

Phe Belladona · Mar 18, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Competitive Mesmer bars have never used Echo, and I don't see why they would.

i used Echo when pleak was 12 recharge 2 pleaks with 40/40 set :O no waiii twas AMAZIN'

surge now just cause it gives such flexibility, and everyone likes a flexi guy

Guillaume De Sonoma · Mar 18, 2008, 07:48 PM // 19:48

You seem to be underestimating GoR. Combined with Diversion, Shame, or Pleak it will decimate teams. Dual Shatters will hurt really bad too.

Tearz1993 · Mar 18, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

well i've used GoR and kinda don't see much of a need for it besides dual shatter personally, but maybe thats just my style

Cass · Mar 19, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

i used Echo when pleak was 12 recharge 2 pleaks with 40/40 set :O no waiii twas AMAZIN'

surge now just cause it gives such flexibility, and everyone likes a flexi guy

E Surge is simply decent on virtually any bar, and so I guess you could say it is 'best' in that sense. But a skill like P Block can be much more direct and thus devastating on an enemy backline, and as such has more potential in certain builds. I say certain builds because you need to be capable of acting within the brief shutdown window, for example. And you need to be able to actually interrupt the critical target (i.e., not an option vs long-distance opponents).
Hex Eater Vortex is similar in a more trivial sense; if you know your opponent is going to hex your melee, then HEV is strong. Otherwise it's pretty much junk.

Phe Belladona · Mar 19, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

E Surge is simply decent on virtually any bar, and so I guess you could say it is 'best' in that sense. But a skill like P Block can be much more direct and thus devastating on an enemy backline, and as such has more potential in certain builds. I say certain builds because you need to be capable of acting within the brief shutdown window, for example. And you need to be able to actually interrupt the critical target (i.e., not an option vs long-distance opponents).
Hex Eater Vortex is similar in a more trivial sense; if you know your opponent is going to hex your melee, then HEV is strong. Otherwise it's pretty much junk.

i dont like PBlock simply cause of the energy cost, 15 energy isnt always to hand and you need to have it when you need it. with FC items and kiting and being KD'd you have little windows to use PBlock and get a good result and if you dont have 15 energy at that precise point you need to wait for that moment again, i find it too inconsistant. and HEV isnt that important PLeak water eles and surge through spikes ftw, vs heavy hexes it has its place but you'd wanna be SURE they're running 3 necros